tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post1429349808599664105..comments2023-06-06T07:02:56.002-07:00Comments on The Spark of Reason: Comment on Guyenet vs. Taubes; or Why I Don't Give a Crap What the Kitavans EatDavehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-8979989613180127002013-03-24T16:19:25.404-07:002013-03-24T16:19:25.404-07:00Persistent epigenetic differences associated with ...Persistent epigenetic differences associated with prenatal exposure to famine in humans:<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579375/<br /><br />Will constant starvation dieting turn on the same epigenetic differences?<br /><br />The Insulin Resistance Epidemic in India: Fetal Origins, Later Lifestyle, or Both?<br />(sorry, abstract only) http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-4887.2001.tb01898.x/abstract<br /><br />And mice: http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/1218856<br /><br />Could this play a role in our different carb sensitivities?<br /><br />What happens if you force these pre-damaged people into a high-carb diet? <br /><br />Sabinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08151650300738691682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-89172844901457553662012-10-18T03:43:03.201-07:002012-10-18T03:43:03.201-07:00@George
Explosive population growth followed the ...@George<br /><br />Explosive population growth followed the introduction of grain harvesting and in fact any form of high yield agricultural carbohydrate sources in general.<br /><br />As we know, most of the negative effects from a life long diet of wheat start to show up in many people after we have had kids.<br /><br />But if we pick and choose famine studies, Iceland had a recent 600 year period of pretty much zero carb as a country from 1200 to 1800 AD and the fossil record shows they were one of the healthiest groups ever.<br /><br />Humans above all are adaptivores but I think our modern diet has pushed us past our rate of adaptation.<br /><br />When we thought we could make butter and cream better than cows, we were already doomed.Danny Albershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15874435555345300963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-51766719755396954792012-08-19T18:52:19.217-07:002012-08-19T18:52:19.217-07:00Yes, true enough Dave; it was the Irish being fit...Yes, true enough Dave; it was the Irish being fit enough to outsoldier the rest of the Brits that spoke to the soundness of their constitutions.<br /><br />I have a theory that might fit the corn vs wheat or potato vs wheat differential; B vitamin status.<br />With modern fortification explaining much.<br />Not an original theory but I think I'm the first to single out thiamine.<br /><a href="http://hopefulgeranium.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/the-role-of-vitamin-fortification-in.html" rel="nofollow">http://hopefulgeranium.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/the-role-of-vitamin-fortification-in.html</a>Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-28208580367303299682012-08-06T14:06:18.625-07:002012-08-06T14:06:18.625-07:00Obesity, like heart disease, results from a comple...Obesity, like heart disease, results from a complex interplay of factors, some of them known, many of them not. Laying the blame for obesity at the feet of "too many carbs" is akin to blaming heart disease on high cholesterol. No doubt these each play a role, they're necessary but are insufficient to explain the entire phenomenon. <br /><br />Low carb does wonders for many people (myself included), but metabolism is a complex dance of hormones, circadian rhythms, and epigenetic signalling. Low-carb is a great starting place for most Westerners, but could be akin to using a hammer when a scalpel is what is really needed.<br /><br />I'm new to your blog, but shall return. Anyone that can use the words "trophy" and "beer gut" in the same sentence, is worth following.Dr. Dan Eganhttp://www.paleohappy.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-17128735169062654242012-08-03T13:10:57.501-07:002012-08-03T13:10:57.501-07:00And as adjunct to the iodine comment... Broda Barn...And as adjunct to the iodine comment... Broda Barnes' book "Hypothyroidism The Unsuspected Illness" describes "sluggish liver function" that sounds a lot like fatty liver.<br /><br />I think metabolic syndrome is another word for low thyroid function. And no, a blood test does not diagnose it correctly, doctors today have forgetten how to look at a patient and diagnosis it clinically. Read Barnes and Stephen Langer and Mark Starr's books on the thyroid. Very interesting information on low thyroid, carb tolerance and the pancreas and insulin as well.The Other Janenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-16072319137341020042012-06-24T07:51:40.791-07:002012-06-24T07:51:40.791-07:00@George,
Interesting point, however I would count...@George,<br /><br />Interesting point, however I would counter that that reproductive success and "health" defined as quality-of-life don't seem to be closely related. The world is full of examples of individuals who created multiple children and dropped dead by 40.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-34093240853422865622012-06-21T21:59:23.995-07:002012-06-21T21:59:23.995-07:00Not only in Kitava (et in Kitava ego?) but in pre-...Not only in Kitava (et in Kitava ego?) but in pre-famine ireland, where the potato had supplanted wheat and buttermilk and spuds was the stable diet of the poor - who thrived on it while it lasted.<br />Ireland on the potato, despite the worst poverty in Europe, had double the population growth rate of England and Wales on bread, and supplied most of the soldiers for the British army.<br /><br />http://www.dochara.com/the-irish/food-history/food-in-ireland-1600-1835/Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-53780133277822275162012-05-17T17:13:37.118-07:002012-05-17T17:13:37.118-07:00Hello Dave,
My name is David Haskell - I am a co-...Hello Dave,<br /><br />My name is David Haskell - I am a co-producer on the new documentary "In Defense of Fat: Rethinking the Bad Science Eating at America's Health." The film is about obesity, health and the politics of nutrition, introducing the principles behind ancestral health and the paleo diet and encouraging a change in the way the culture talks about obesity.<br /><br />The film talks about this very issue and we would love to tell you more about. Please feel welcome to contact me at davidi.haskell@gmail.com.<br /><br />Thanks and keep up the great blogging.<br /><br />DavidDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13764702046859233124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-85775738397000037212012-05-01T10:17:33.181-07:002012-05-01T10:17:33.181-07:00@Reggie,
Your internal biochemistry may be intrin...@Reggie,<br /><br />Your internal biochemistry may be intrinsically the same as everyone else. But if you're a competitive athlete, the net result of that biochemistry is certainly different, since you are putting much different demands on your body. For instance, now that I've started training in power-lifting, I have to eat more carbohydrates to maintain muscle glycogen. Otherwise I literally run out of gas. The body is not a closed system, and the context in which it operates makes a big difference in the final outcome of its interactions with the environment.<br /><br />Interesting article, tangentially related:<br /><br />http://roarofwolverine.com/archives/1437Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-22324083686855143682012-04-29T15:49:01.825-07:002012-04-29T15:49:01.825-07:00Sorry Dave, I should have been clearer that the sc...Sorry Dave, I should have been clearer that the scales were a device, I could equally have said that if I have overindulged one day I eat less the next. I have competitive (sporting) reasons for monitoring my weight.Reggie Dixonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-31563390884952348962012-04-28T18:37:36.956-07:002012-04-28T18:37:36.956-07:00@Reggie,
And yet, animals, when eating the diet t...@Reggie,<br /><br />And yet, animals, when eating the diet they evolved to eat, manage to avoid being overweight without scales or the ability to reason about the consequences of what they consume. Humans have obviously evolved to be special, where over the course of several million years our genes amazingly mutated such that the invention of the scale would save us from obesity.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-13439654198108447212012-04-28T11:17:39.489-07:002012-04-28T11:17:39.489-07:00I'm 47, Caucasian, Male, 6'3" and I h...I'm 47, Caucasian, Male, 6'3" and I have known for a long time that I eat a higher percentage of Carbohydrates in my diet than these Kitavans I had previously not heard of. I'm sure nobody "gives a crap" but I weigh 175 and have a 27" waist (as measured by a health professional). I know in advance the kind of adverse comments I am going to receive but my point is this. I would be willing to bet that I am absolutely the same in terms of internal chemistry as anyone else. There is a simple reason I am the weight I am, every morning I step on the scales, if the number is higher than the day before, I eat a little less, if it is lower I eat a little more.Reggie Dixonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-19815391218772834972012-04-04T20:27:52.856-07:002012-04-04T20:27:52.856-07:00@ jack, retinol is also required for remineralisa...@ jack, retinol is also required for remineralisation of teeth. I also suggest eating hard cheeses before bed.<br /><br />This is the best post I've read on this debate.<br /><br />Food reward is pseudo-scientific mysticism unless palatability is objectively measurable.<br />A theory of addiction, mediated by exorphins and neurotransmitter modulators (MSG, fructose, etc) at least has the benefit of a measurable mechanism.Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-43905983072807576272012-04-03T11:18:28.579-07:002012-04-03T11:18:28.579-07:00Dave,
I was looking at a comment that you made abo...Dave,<br />I was looking at a comment that you made about tooth-recalification. My son has some "soft spots" that I would like to heal rather than fill. I would love to hear your experience. della.chad.spam@comcast.net<br />Thanks.<br />DellaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-29625743300767081472012-03-19T20:03:40.841-07:002012-03-19T20:03:40.841-07:00Dave, In a 2010 post on the whole health website y...Dave, In a 2010 post on the whole health website you discussed a problem that your infant son had with a caries.<br /> <br />An internet friend from Montana has an infant son with several caries. She has been giving vitamin D and K2 but the caries have not healed. She is looking for advice if you have any to offer.<br /><br />Jack C. @ jandpc@bellsouth.netAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-23299928415627530442012-03-02T14:02:27.261-08:002012-03-02T14:02:27.261-08:00Hi Dave:
Could iodine be part of the reason some p...Hi Dave:<br />Could iodine be part of the reason some primitive societies tolerate carbohydrates so well? All the societies mentioned by Stephan Guyenet who eat primarily carbohydrates successfully live near the ocean. The Kitavan's, the Tokelauan's, the Okinawa. Perhpas they can eat carbohydrates, because they have healthy thyroids over their life times. The average Japanese consume about 12 mg of iodine per day. Far more than the RDI of 150 ug. It has been argued that 150 ug is merely the amount of iodine required to prevent goitre and that our actual needs are far greater for optimal health. <br /><br />Is it possible that the reason some people claim to experience a decrease in thyroid function when on a low carb diet, is because a low carb diet unmasks an iodine deficiency?Olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15346661892269510469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-50495580910173292472012-01-12T10:21:20.879-08:002012-01-12T10:21:20.879-08:00Thanks - lots of ideas, too little time. Been real...Thanks - lots of ideas, too little time. Been really busy lately, haven't even had a chance to read any of Taubes' replies to the initial argument.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-23923118149151429592012-01-08T14:32:57.490-08:002012-01-08T14:32:57.490-08:00Dave,
I hope you are going to post in 2012. I'...Dave,<br /><br />I hope you are going to post in 2012. I've been missing the Sparks of Reason, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.<br /><br />How about this to provoke you?:<br /><br />http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/11/brief-response-to-taubess-food-rewad.html#more<br /><br /><br />Regards,<br />Mikemontmorencyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879422255762834319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-57534867777381309192011-12-29T11:53:57.594-08:002011-12-29T11:53:57.594-08:00Amen to this post! In our society many are metabol...Amen to this post! In our society many are metabolically broken, perhaps from babyhood and have had constant exposure to processed foods. So what do we have in common with those primitive carb cultures metabolically? Not much. <br />I'm tired of seeing "experts" putting obesity as the cause of the myriad of health problems that follow, rather than a symptom. That leads them to think that whatever skinnies up a person is healthy (bariatric surgery,anyone?).Johmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947423460891672039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-37482417781151863712011-11-14T00:19:07.412-08:002011-11-14T00:19:07.412-08:00WOW, Thank you for a sane sensible blog post. It&#...WOW, Thank you for a sane sensible blog post. It's the best one I have read in quite a while.<br />Thanks for sharing with us.Calorie Counter Apphttp://www.caloriecounteriphone.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-34572333310088642022011-11-01T18:06:07.196-07:002011-11-01T18:06:07.196-07:00While the the phrase "great stuff" would...While the the phrase "great stuff" would apply to this and all of your posts Dave, I'm not sure it really applies to Stephan's IMHO.<br /><br /><br />After supposedly deconstructing Taubes' major theses, even while admitting that low-carbing works for "some people" (I would say it works for everyone who tries it properly, but it may only work to a limited degree for quite a few of us), when at the end he is trying to describe how it works, he has to fall back on the old story "it works by reducing calories".<br /><br /><br />Ah, so it was CICO all along! And I thought it was all so much more complicated, including leptin, ghrelin, other things ending in "-in", or "-ides", and lots of other things with ellipses in their names. Thank you for that insight Stephan.<br /><br />And I thought it was Taubes who was suppposed to be over-simplifying.<br /><br /><br />What Stephan has failed to explain is why I and many other carbers, even if we haven't all quite got down to the 30-inch waists that we had as 20-year-olds, can reduce our calories (if that is indeed what we are doing) on a low-carb diet, without experiencing hunger in-between meals (even on only 2 meals a day for example, and without any form of snacking)?<br /><br /><br />Gary Taubes would (I think) say that it's because of the newly liberated free-fatty-acids which are now available to supplement our now-reduced calorie intake.<br /><br /><br />However, in what Stephan has written, he has eliminated that as a possibility (if you go along with him), but not put anything in its place. <i>Non satis</i>montmorencyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12879422255762834319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-72051569441030855952011-10-26T12:20:20.783-07:002011-10-26T12:20:20.783-07:00WOW, Thank you for a sane sensible blog post. It&...WOW, Thank you for a sane sensible blog post. It's the best one I have read in quite a while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-84794746590910701302011-09-10T02:45:56.511-07:002011-09-10T02:45:56.511-07:00Here it is:
Normally, a state of oral tolerance e...Here it is:<br /><br />Normally, a state of oral tolerance exists for gluten. In persons who do not have celiac disease, the peptide products of gluten digestion by pancreatic and brush border enzymes traverse the apical membrane into the enterocyte, where they are further processed by hydrolases to nonimmunogenic products. A tiny fraction of undigested gluten enters the lamina propria through tight junctions and generates oral tolerance. ...Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-76974026951677199092011-09-09T07:04:07.344-07:002011-09-09T07:04:07.344-07:00Have a look at 'The activation of intestinal p...Have a look at 'The activation of intestinal peptidases by manganese', which is very short and says 'Since the intestinal enzymes that hydrolyse other peptides such as glycylglycine and prolylglycine are also activated by Mn, it becomes clear that there are in intestinal mucosa several metal-containing proteases.' The prolylglycine is important because peptide bonds involving proline are difficult to break, and there are lots of them in gluten.<br /><br />You could also try 'Metal activation of peptidases', or 'Alterations of pancreatic digestive enzyme content in the manganese-deficient rat'. I don't know of any paper addressing these questions specifically in humans.<br /><br />Some gluten breakdown occurs intracellularly in lysosomes, several of whose enzymes including the proton pump are glycosylated, which requires manganese. Manganese and magnesium activate the enzyme that makes glutamine, which is used as fuel by enterocytes. Everywhere you look, there are digestive processes dependent on these metals.<br /><br />About intestinal permeability. Gluten needs to open tight junctions to gain access to the gut immune system for establishment of oral tolerance. I had a quote about this from a textbook that I sent to some people and will try to find.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-607879766089766742011-09-08T08:45:55.630-07:002011-09-08T08:45:55.630-07:00@Jane,
Which enzymes? Do you have a reference sho...@Jane,<br /><br />Which enzymes? Do you have a reference showing this in humans?<br /><br />I don't see how the function of gluten for a plant is related to it's toxicity in humans. Cholesterol isn't a "toxin" per se, but is definitely toxic for rabbits.<br /><br />Here's they celiac hypothesis put forward in Wheat Belly (also the reference 24 pasted below):<br /><br />Regulating intestinal permeability is therefore a fundamental function of the cells lining the fragile intestinal wall. Recent research has fingered wheat gliadin as a trigger of intestinal release of a protein called zonulin, a regulator of intestinal permeability.24 Zonulins have the peculiar effect of disassembling tight junctions, the normally secure barrier between intestinal cells. When gliadin triggers zonulin release, intestinal tight junctions are disrupted, and unwanted proteins such as gliadin and other wheat protein fractions gain entry to the bloodstream. Immune-activating lymphocytes, such as T-cells, are then triggered to begin an inflammatory process against various “self” proteins, thus initiating wheat gluten- and gliadin-initiated conditions such as celiac disease, thyroid disease, joint diseases, and asthma. Gliadin wheat proteins are akin to being able to pick the lock on any door, allowing unwanted intruders to gain entry into places they don’t belong. <br /><br />Davis, William (2011). Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health (Kindle Locations 1289-1296). Rodale. Kindle Edition. <br /><br />24. Drago S, El Asmar R, Di Pierro M et al. Gliadin, zonulin and gut permeability: effects on celiac and nonceliac intestinal mucosa and intestinal cell lines. Scand J Gastroenterol 2006;41:408-19.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.com