tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post688122829554936614..comments2023-06-06T07:02:56.002-07:00Comments on The Spark of Reason: Book Review: The Jungle Effect, by Daphne Miller, M.D.Davehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-6710580197411869422010-05-22T20:27:42.198-07:002010-05-22T20:27:42.198-07:00Hi Dave,
My english is poor, so I read over 2 hour...Hi Dave,<br />My english is poor, so I read over 2 hours but It was very interesting. ThanksDiethttp://www.no1-weight-loss-diet.infonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-71827507566349417972009-10-11T08:15:42.592-07:002009-10-11T08:15:42.592-07:00Thank you.Thank you.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-50302516670709012132009-10-09T22:03:21.724-07:002009-10-09T22:03:21.724-07:00Love your blog!
Bueller
http://www.buellerskitche...Love your blog!<br /><br />Bueller<br />http://www.buellerskitchen.comAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967415570574288118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-19004082795008186782008-12-06T09:37:00.000-08:002008-12-06T09:37:00.000-08:00I agree. One of the reasons I loved the Colpo and ...I agree. One of the reasons I loved the Colpo and Ravnskov books was because the authors actually read the studies they quoted. <BR/><BR/>It seems to me that most doctors and journal editors don't do that much, and the result is that researchers are able to write summary statements that don't reflect the actual data. Thus begins the lie of "authority".<BR/><BR/>It's mind boggling to me that medical professionals don't have the time or inclination to really look at the data on which they base patient treatment. <BR/><BR/>It's also clear to me that the food/hormone hypothesis is the strongest, and Taubes book can only be ignored for so long. He has said he is going to write a "layman's version" and I hope once the American public really understands the relationship between food, insulin, blood sugar and health, they will begin to question the advice of the mainstream medical establishment in mass. I'm hoping for a revolt at the grass roots level..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-83633791179510072332008-12-06T08:37:00.000-08:002008-12-06T08:37:00.000-08:00Thanks Ellen.What I find usually happens is that p...Thanks Ellen.<BR/><BR/>What I find usually happens is that people are too quick to listen to the "voice of authority". Ancel Keys had some kind of agenda, if only to advance his own career and standing in the scientific community (for which he was quite successful). Others like Dr. Miller assume that Keys position is authoritative, if only because he is supported by the weight of *opinion*. What's lacking is any sort of critical thinking about the evidence, particularly when confronted by apparent contradictions. "The Jungle Effect" would have been far more compelling had Dr. Miller simply stuck to the actual evidence she had: when people changed to the diet she recommended, they experienced improvements in health. Trying to reconcile that with the rest of nutritional dogma is pointless, because the existence of the nutritional dogma (right or wrong) changes the observations of how health improves with these dietary changes.<BR/><BR/>BTW, I believe that the results Dr. Miller saw are nicely explained by the hypothesis of how food affects hormones (or the effects of hormones) like insulin. This hypothesis also encompasses the results seen for low-carbohydrate diets (not "high protein diets", where Dr. Miller seems to be confused). I have yet to see any evidence contradicting the food/hormone hypothesis.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-89176521702615310482008-12-05T22:15:00.000-08:002008-12-05T22:15:00.000-08:00LOVED this post. I just finished reading Uffe Rav...LOVED this post. I just finished reading Uffe Ravnskov's book The Cholesterol Myths. He pretty much dismantles the "evidence" on the diet-heart hypothesis. One wonders how scientists like Dr. Miller and Ancel Keyes can be so convinced of the "truth" of ideas that have no basis in science. Such is the power of belief, whether in reason or dogma.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-46712447400597893932008-11-06T15:23:00.000-08:002008-11-06T15:23:00.000-08:00Hi Steve. I've asked several experts to provide an...Hi Steve. I've asked several experts to provide any sort of rationale for the diet-heart hypothesis, and have come up with a big zero. People are firmly convinced of its truth, but when asked to supply supporting evidence it doesn't get much farther than the Seven Countries Study. The evidence from controlled studies as well as other epidemiological studies seems to equivocal (some show positive correlation, some negative, some none). The only hypothesis consistently supported by these results is that dietary saturated fat has no effect on CHD development, and that any significant observed correlation is probably due to correlation of saturated fat intake with some other causal variables in the particular dataset.<BR/><BR/>Suppose one removed the saturated fat nonsense and started from scratch. The development of atherosclerotic lesions is much more well understood today than when the diet-heart hypothesis got its start. Starting with that knowledge, combined with what is known about lipoprotein metabolism and the inflammatory response to oxidized/glycated LDL, I suspect most people would come up with a very different version of the diet-heart hypothesis. The erroneously high weight placed on the saturated fat hypothesis effectively blinds people. It's a great example of "pseudo-logic": starting from evidence that is assumed correct, one follows rational thinking to a hypothesis. The problem is that far too much weight was placed on the original evidence, so the hypothesis, while following "logically", actually carries much less weight than is presumed.<BR/><BR/>I'm still waiting for anybody to mount any sort of reasonably coherent response to Taubes' book. All of those I've seen so far amount to "He must be wrong, because we're right".<BR/><BR/>The Jungle Effect gives a good example of how pseudo-logical reasoning pollutes what otherwise would have been a clean scientific process. Dr. Miller started with a reasonable hypothesis: diet may be responsible for disease, thus in populations show low incidence of some disease, they are either protected by some food or by the absence of causative food(s) in diseased populations. So, for example, she puts a pre-diabetic patient on the Tarahumaran diet, and presto, the problem fixes itself. Several similar examples are given in the book, all of which support the core hypothesis. Great scientific method, right? The problem is that she then tries to explain all of this in terms of a bunch of other nutritional hypotheses (like diet-heart), and winds up with a mess of contradictions and paradoxes. Had she stuck with the actual evidence she had, the whole thing would have been nicely self-contained and consistent.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-11811078815090407382008-11-06T13:03:00.000-08:002008-11-06T13:03:00.000-08:00My belief in the diet-heart hypothesis (dietary sa...My belief in the diet-heart hypothesis (dietary saturated fat and cholesterol cause atherosclerosis) took a serious hit when Dr. George Bray didn't even bother to defend it in his review of Taubes' book, GCBC.<BR/><BR/>As I recall, he wrote something like, "you decide for yourself."<BR/><BR/>That's good advice, but how many of us have the time?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-30636535203623950652008-10-29T14:54:00.000-07:002008-10-29T14:54:00.000-07:00That's exactly how I felt about it! He roasted hi...That's exactly how I felt about it! He roasted his opponents for using epi data to support their conclusions, then he used it himself to support the stress link. Still a great book though. I'd pay the $15 just to get the tables in it.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-73863974256261252372008-10-29T06:29:00.000-07:002008-10-29T06:29:00.000-07:00Thanks Stephan.(-: Everyone knows carrots *prevent...Thanks Stephan.<BR/><BR/>(-: Everyone knows carrots *prevent* atherosclerosis, because if you feed bunnies carrots, they don't develop heart disease. Of course, when eating their natural diet of lions and tigers, it's plaque galore. :-)<BR/><BR/>I read Colpo's book some time back, and agree that it is a great review of the evidence, probably the best I've seen. My only problem with it was that I remember Colpo being a bit over-enthusiastic, and not applying the same standard of evidence to his own hypotheses as applied to others'. Definitely worth reading, though.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-40412076848789523432008-10-28T15:25:00.000-07:002008-10-28T15:25:00.000-07:00Nice post. I think I will skip this book.The prob...Nice post. I think I will skip this book.<BR/><BR/>The problem with your theory of atherosclerosis is it makes too much sense. You need to come up with something wackier like carrots cause atherosclerosis, then maybe you can have a chance of getting it accepted.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I recently read the book "The Great Cholesterol Con" by Anthony Colpo (there are two books out there with the same title). Despite the sensationalist title, it's a great overview of the data on heart disease, cholesterol/saturated fat/total fat, other factors and health. It's more comprehensive than GCBC. He has several awesome tables that sum up the results of epi and intervention trials on fat/saturated fat. He is clearly very well read. I highly recommend it.Stephan Guyenethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218114625524777250noreply@blogger.com