tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post8348654784540703750..comments2023-06-06T07:02:56.002-07:00Comments on The Spark of Reason: Energy Regulation 1: Do Calories Count? And Who's Counting?Davehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-90838549832216767322009-05-01T21:24:00.000-07:002009-05-01T21:24:00.000-07:00Hi Dave,
I hope your system alerts you to this co...Hi Dave,<br /><br />I hope your system alerts you to this comment because I believe I've discovered something important regarding the energy balance controversy. It has to do with gut bacteria and the heat they generate while feeding and multiplying.<br /><br />As far as I can tell, obesity researchers such as George Bray, using a metabolic chamber, can fairly accurately measure total heat generated within the body. However, since they do not subtract out the heat energy generated by gut bacterial activity, which diffuses into the body, they're actually measuring two things; heat generated by the body and heat generated by gut bacteria. For example, "The total available energy of a food may be defined simply as its heat of combustion, minus the heat of combustion of the faecal and urinary residues to which it gives rise." http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/MEETING/004/M2763E/M2763E00.HTM <br /><br />What the author(s) of this definition seem to have overlooked is the fact that bacterial metabolic activity in the gut takes place outside the body and involves calories the body did not absorb. Since, as mentioned earlier, these calories are dissipated as heat, it looks like the body itself is metabolizing calories to produce that energy. <br /><br />I don't yet know how large this effect might be. My next move is to contact some microbiology researchers to determine if any of them know where to find data. If the effect is relatively large, it would explain why overfeeding and underfeeding experiments often produce perplexing results. http://books.google.com/books?id=iVqZdRh6ICoC&pg=PA127&lpg=PA127&dq=Vermont+prison+overfeeding+studies+conducted+by+Ethan+Sims&source=bl&ots=hJQgA0wFIQ&sig=ptFHOlcjLpdt6IrvzdkeCdEaFsE&hl=en&ei=hpT2SdryFJTEswOy15hG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2<br /><br />In the end, we may learn that energy equilibrium may involve a rather large range of caloric intake for some people and a very narrow range for others. It may also turn be that different combinations of macronutrient intake may widen or narrow that range.David Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16372232359108968083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-43906438400370593992008-07-06T08:05:00.000-07:002008-07-06T08:05:00.000-07:00You're most welcome.It is unfortunate that most di...You're most welcome.<BR/><BR/>It is unfortunate that most diet advice (even when it's partially correct) is usually based on an oversimplified and dogmatic view. Part of the reason I think this occurs is that those who devise the diet try to make it as simple as possible, so it's easier to follow; but then the simplified version becomes entrenched as "truth", and the details sacrificed for practicality get lost completely.<BR/><BR/>Low-carb diets have two advantages: they're effective because they allow the body to restore something approximating a healthy equilibrium in the regulatory systems, and they're dead easy ("don't eat anything on this list"). Unfortunately, an healthy equilibrium internally may correspond to an external state where we still want to lose a little more fat. I'm guessing that in many cases it requires some extra effort to move the external equilibrium such that it corresponds with our desired external appearance.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-75949796074218050572008-07-04T08:16:00.000-07:002008-07-04T08:16:00.000-07:00I just wanted to say thank you for posting this bl...I just wanted to say thank you for posting this blog and I really look forward to your future posts. Finally someone is making some sense. I have been eating low carb and reading various blogs and forums for the last 8 months. Most of it is noise. As someone who has been overweight my whole life but has NOT been a big eater, I have always known there has to be something going on besides calories in, calories out. Low carb has helped to take almost 30 lbs off me but it obviously is not the whole answer either as I've come to realize over this time. But the low carb experts will say you must be cheating or eating too much if low carb isn't working for you. So I continue to search for more pieces of the puzzle. And you are helping with that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-25678428417281303012008-06-29T11:31:00.000-07:002008-06-29T11:31:00.000-07:00Try this one.<A HREF="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjournals.cambridge.org%2Fproduction%2Faction%2FcjoGetFulltext%3Ffulltextid%3D886616&ei=NNRnSJqHAZKOsAO7vJWnDQ&usg=AFQjCNFaQtB4xQBSc77Mk7ux38p7mNzdIg&sig2=8FTiKfiKH0uk0wlbKvP2fA" REL="nofollow">Try this one.</A>Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-18236748279564816312008-06-29T11:16:00.000-07:002008-06-29T11:16:00.000-07:00Hi Dave,I couldn't access the paper on fatty acid ...Hi Dave,<BR/><BR/>I couldn't access the paper on fatty acid absorption. All I get is this: File not available. [S0007114599000124a.pdf].Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-67143637747015386712008-06-29T10:50:00.000-07:002008-06-29T10:50:00.000-07:00Just to follow up on the bile excretion topic. It ...Just to follow up on the bile excretion topic. <A HREF="http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/full/513/1/11?ck=nck" REL="nofollow">It appears that fatty acid chain length affects secretion of the hormone cholecystokinin (CCK)</A>. One of the roles of CCK is to stimulate gall bladder contraction. <A HREF="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9869601?dopt=Abstract" REL="nofollow">Fatty acids of 12 carbons or longer may increase CCK secretion, while 10 or shorter have no measured effect</A>. So the increase in bile excretion may occur because more bile is secreted. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FBJN%2FBJN81_01%2FS0007114599000124a.pdf&code=35795381323fbc9474f024857fd4885c" REL="nofollow">Here's another paper on the topic of fatty acid absorption</A>.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-32054715343119913882008-06-29T10:03:00.000-07:002008-06-29T10:03:00.000-07:00Hi David. Very interesting article. If I read it r...Hi David. Very interesting article. If I read it right, the key results are that butter doesn't change bile excretion much, but sunflower seed oil did; serum cholesterol increased on the butter diet, but fell on the sunflower oil diet. Fiber also changed excretion of bile and fatty acids, but I believe that fiber not only physically blocks absorption, but also can bind up some bile and fat. Other studies saw similar results in the consumption of coconut oil (output unchanged, cholesterol increased) and sunflower oil (output increased, cholesterol decreased).<BR/><BR/>The differences from fatty acid composition are pretty interesting, and it's a little surprising this hasn't been picked up more broadly. Butter and coconut oil contain both a larger proportion of both saturated fatty acids and short and medium chain fatty acids, while vegetable oils are largely mono/polyunsaturated long-chain fatty acids. That leads to some interesting questions, such as whether it is the chain length or saturation that induces the observed changes. Also, it appears that the amount of fatty acids excreted is largely unchanged.<BR/><BR/>Bile is generally reabsorbed farther down the intestine (in the ileum) than most fat, and supposedly pretty efficiently. Maybe long-chain or polyunsaturated fats just require more bile? Interesting stuff, hopefully some more studies will be done.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-79661680127037156052008-06-28T17:34:00.000-07:002008-06-28T17:34:00.000-07:00Thanks for linking up the URLs.You asked, "Has any...Thanks for linking up the URLs.<BR/><BR/>You asked, "Has anyone measured the unabsorbed calories on the output end? It would be interesting to do this across a variety of diets."<BR/><BR/>As far as I can tell, there's been very little of this sort of research. You can access a study published in the AJCN here:<BR/>http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/11/2/142Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-31386526911074290982008-06-28T15:29:00.000-07:002008-06-28T15:29:00.000-07:00Hi David. Has anyone measured the unabsorbed calor...Hi David. Has anyone measured the unabsorbed calories on the output end? It would be interesting to do this across a variety of diets.<BR/><BR/>Differences in caloric absorption across different diets would underscore another reason we need some regulation of caloric intake beyond just mechanical filling of the stomach. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for links. I suspect Blogger will maul the URL's you posted, and for the life of me I can't figure out how to edit other people's comments to fix things like this. Here they are linked up:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.caloriesperhour.com/forums/forum19/75.html" REL="nofollow">http://www.caloriesperhour.com/forums/forum19/75.html</A><BR/><A HREF="http://blog.kir.com/archives/2007/10/kolata_on_good.asp" REL="nofollow">http://blog.kir.com/archives/2007/10/kolata_on_good.asp</A><BR/><A HREF="http://blogs.mtengine.com/cally/2006/02/pure_white_and_deadly.html" REL="nofollow">http://blogs.mtengine.com/cally/2006/02/pure_white_and_deadly.html</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/330/7504/0-g#109662" REL="nofollow">http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/330/7504/0-g#109662</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/youropinions.php?opinionid=4166" REL="nofollow">http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/youropinions.php?opinionid=4166</A><BR/><A HREF="http://www.fiber35diet.com/_articles/article_f35_04_FlushFormula.aspx" REL="nofollow">http://www.fiber35diet.com/_articles/article_f35_04_FlushFormula.aspx</A><BR/><A HREF="http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/328/7455/1558#64638" REL="nofollow">http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/328/7455/1558#64638<BR/></A>Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290594860469294453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7721098568390636553.post-84769032034456138012008-06-28T12:20:00.000-07:002008-06-28T12:20:00.000-07:00Over the past few years I've tried to drum up, wit...Over the past few years I've tried to drum up, with little apparent success, some interest in the unabsorbed calorie phenomenon.<BR/><BR/>Most weight control experts write as though every calorie that passes between the lips gets absorbed into the bloodstream. If this were true, force feeding experiments would produce far more weight gain than generally reported. <BR/><BR/>Will you be discussing this aspect of caloric utilization in future posts?<BR/><BR/>For more discussion regarding unabsorbed calories visit these web pages:<BR/><BR/>http://www.caloriesperhour.com/forums/forum19/75.html<BR/>http://blog.kir.com/archives/2007/10/kolata_on_good.asp<BR/>http://blogs.mtengine.com/cally/2006/02/pure_white_and_deadly.html<BR/>http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/330/7504/0-g#109662<BR/>http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/youropinions.php?opinionid=4166<BR/>http://www.fiber35diet.com/_articles/article_f35_04_FlushFormula.aspx<BR/>http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/328/7455/1558#64638Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com