Thursday, July 22, 2010

Yes, We Have No Bananas

Just a very quick post. It's been almost a week since I submitted my registration for 30bananasaday.com. Prolific commenter "durianrider" is one of the principles at this site. You can read some of his "insightful" comments on the last post. Note, however, the one question I asked repeatedly, to which he gives no attention. Not only do I think I will never get approved to post on 30bananasaday.com, I doubt I'll even get a reason. Draw your own conclusions.

Another interesting development is the new(ish) web site campbellcoalition.com. Dr. Campbell's response to Denise Minger's critique is featured prominently, and better yet, Dr. Campbell has indicated that he may participate in some discussion here. I've posted a few questions, and urge others to do the same. I recommend you focus the discussion on scientific topics, as opposed to his opinion of Denise Minger, etc. Come armed with some hard questions on the connections between nutrition and metabolism, particular as they relate to Dr. Campbell's hypotheses. I believe this exercise has two realistic outcomes: either Dr. Campbell has some answers (which actually would be very cool), or he stonewalls. Either way we learn something interesting.

*** UPDATE ***
Well, it didn't take long for us to learn something interesting. From the comments on Dr. Campbell's reply to Denise Minger:

Based on the response received thus far, we have determined that our prior idea of a reasoned and civil discourse, with participation by Dr. Campbell, is not feasible and have decided to discontinue this discussion thread. Before closing, however, Dr. Campbell wanted to respond to comments from Denise Minger. Her comments are posted above, and Dr. Campbell’s response follows.


In other words, Dr. Campbell is going to have the last word, like it or not. So much for scientific discourse. The Campbells certainly could have chosen the path taken by Denise Minger - posting all discussion, whether "civil" or not, and choosing the reply to those questions or issues that are clearly intended to foster scientific discussion, and ignoring ad hominem attacks etc. Dr. Campbell's chosen course speaks to his true motivations.

If you have questions you posted to Campbell's site which did not make it through moderation, I invite you to repost in the comments here. Others can then see exactly what offended Dr. Campbell so greatly that he opted out of the discussion.

6 comments:

Zooko said...

I posted a question. I'm
somewhat proud of it, because it seems like a good question to focus
attention on facts and numbers. Indeed I think I have now responded to
the only part of his letter which is factual and quantitative and so
now everybody else should not ask any questions until we see if he
answers this one. :-)

It is currently marked as "Your comment is awaiting moderation.".

http://campbellcoalition.com/?p=142&cpage=1#comment-27

> Dr. Campbell:
>
> Ms. Minger in http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/ stated that the China Study data showed “a +67 correlation” between wheat consumption and coronary heart disease. You say here that this is a univariate correlation which doesn’t take into account other potentially important factors such as green vegetable consumption, serum levels of monounsaturated fats, serum levels of urea, and body weight.
>
> My question is: when you do a multivariate correlation analysis which takes into account those other four factors in addition to wheat consumption and heart disease, then what are the resulting numbers? What is the correlation between wheat consumption and heart disease in that multivariate analysis?
>
> Thank you for taking the time to respond to Ms. Minger’s analysis. I believe this is an important conversation that will turn out to have historic consequences.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zooko Wilcox-O’Hearn

Juan said...

Dave, I'm really enjoying your blog (just discovered recently). I left a post on Campbell's site, but I'm afraid it doesn't ask any substantive questions. Sort of in one part, though. You are right .. I shouldn't have bashed. We'll see, though.

Keep up the good work.
Juan

Dave said...

@Zooka, @Juan,

Glad you enjoyed the blog, and am pleased you posted some questions on the Campbell Coalition site. Note however, that they've already bailed out. So much for scientific integrity.

The great irony here is their reasoning for not participating in the discussion, given how they have characterized Denise Minger previously.

Alex said...

I think Campbell is most offended that people didn't all just roll over and play dead at the mere mention of his credentials.

Dave said...

@Alex,

Like a good friend of mine often reminds me: "Ph.D. stands for Piled High and Deep".

Dave, RN said...

I posted how a friend of my sons dad, who is a long time vegitarian, had a heart attack last week. She brough his labs for me to see (with her dads permission) and his trigs were VERY high.

Somehow, my post did not go through. I reposted today. I'll check back to see it it goes thourgh, but I have a feeling it won't.